{"id":129885,"date":"2025-06-21T00:02:09","date_gmt":"2025-06-21T04:02:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/setonshrine.org\/?p=129885"},"modified":"2025-06-21T04:36:25","modified_gmt":"2025-06-21T08:36:25","slug":"saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/setonshrine.org\/es\/saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more\/","title":{"rendered":"Only the Brave Are Civil: St. Thomas More, St. John Fisher, and Mother Seton"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>St. Thomas More and St. John Fisher are examples of a virtue St. Elizabeth Ann Seton also exemplified: The courage to be civil.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI die the king\u2019s good servant, and God\u2019s first,\u201d St. Thomas More famously said beside the chopping block where he would lose his head for remaining respectfully silent about King Henry VIII\u2019s authority claims over the Church.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cHe is the one man at this time who is incomparable for uprightness of life, for learning and for greatness of soul,\u201d famed scholar Erasmus said of St. John Fisher, who was martyred for his steadfast defense of Catherine of Aragon against Henry\u2019s attempts to divorce her.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI am gently, quietly, and silently a good Catholic,\u201d Elizabeth Ann Seton told a friend even as she faced the nonviolent but truly hurtful persecution of snubs, slander, and ostracization.<\/p>\n<p>Any weak person can lash out at enemies and answer the taunts of bullies. Only a brave person can respond to persecution with respect and love. Here are four ways these saints became brave.<\/p>\n<p><strong>First, each of these saints were members of two communities \u2014 one was the upper echelons of society, and the other an ascetic religious community.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Thomas More was born in 1478, and attended the finest schools in England, up to and including Oxford, where he studied with leading intellectuals of the time before entering law school. In his youth he was a page to the Lord Chancellor of England, and later climbed the ladder of offices to assume the position himself.<\/p>\n<p>He lived near a monastery as a young man, prayed regularly with the monks, and considered joining them. Instead, he remained a layman who never forgot the monastery, keeping to his prayers and wearing a hair shirt to tame his self-will.<\/p>\n<p>John Fisher was born in 1484 to a prosperous merchant\u2019s family. He rose through the ranks of academia to Cambridge, where he was a scholar and administrator, and rose through the Church to become a bishop. He was known for placing a human skull on the altar at Mass and on his dinner table as a <em>memento mori. <\/em>Like Thomas More\u2019s hair shirt, Fisher did this to remind himself to be humble.<\/p>\n<p>As a young wife, Elizabeth Seton was immersed in the excitement of 18th century New York, which was already a bustling city of commerce by day, and of high society and entertainment by night. She was an accomplished young woman, an avid reader, and a devout Episcopalian active in charitable causes.<\/p>\n<p>Elizabeth discovered the Catholic Church in Italy where her husband died of tuberculosis. Eventually, she founded a religious community dedicated to the care and education of the poor.<\/p>\n<p>Jesus often teaches how difficult it is to be both well-off and faithful. More, Fisher, and Mother Seton showed how it can be done \u2014 by living in a spiritual community and embracing redemptive suffering.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Second, in order to be civil you have to trust God even when your life circumstances change dramatically for the worse.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>All three saints were \u201cthe toast of the town\u201d in one way or another before they found themselves rejected and, in the case of Fisher and More, persecuted by their peers.<\/p>\n<p>Thomas More was imprisoned in the Tower of London for fourteen months for refusing to sign an oath that proclaimed King Henry VIII head of the Church in England. Throughout his ordeal, he refused to give up on God.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI will not mistrust Him, Meg, although I shall feel myself weakening and on the verge of being overcome with fear,\u201d More wrote to his daughter. \u201cI shall remember how St. Peter at a blast of wind began to sink because of his lack of faith, and I shall do as he did: call upon Christ and pray to Him for help. And then I trust He shall place His holy hand on me and in the stormy seas hold me up from drowning.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Elizabeth said the same thing in response to the many sorrows of her life: \u201cI am in your hands my God \u2014 punish, but do not destroy. Listen to that voice from the height of the cross which, rising to your throne, cried \u2018Father forgive!\u2019 It is for me that voice intercedes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Third, civility comes from a real, if wary, trust in God\u2019s human agents.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>As the Lord Chancellor, St. Thomas More had made a living from the law of the land, and trusted in the political order. When he was imprisoned and then put on trial for his life, his trust did not waver.<\/p>\n<p>During More\u2019s trial, Solicitor General Richard Rich claimed that More had made treasonous statements in private conversation with him. More asked the magistrates if they thought it was likely that \u201cI should in so weighty an affair as this, act so unadvisedly, as to trust Mr. Rich, a man I had always so mean an opinion of? \u2026 I refer it to your judgments, my Lords, whether this can seem credible to any of your Lordships.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The magistrates found More guilty, but his defense has become famous, most recently in Robert Bolt\u2019s 20th century play and subsequent movie <em>A Man for All Seasons.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Mother Seton trusted both in God and the freedom of those made in His image in a similar way. She wrote to a friend of her new position leading a religious congregation: \u201cI shall be at the head of a community which will live under the strictest rules of order and regularity, but I shall not give those laws, nor have any care of compelling others to fulfill them.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Saints know that God allowed the world to be subject to human freedom, and that gives them the strength to risk submitting themselves to human authority, even when it leads to injustice and suffering .<\/p>\n<p><strong>Fourth, civility comes from a humble acceptance of one\u2019s role in society.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>St. Thomas More\u2019s story could be a parable about being a perfect citizen. He never turned against either the King of England or the King of Heaven. He is famous for having said, \u201cI would uphold the law if for no other reason but to protect myself\u201d \u2014 he would rather be unjustly convicted by people who respect the law of the land than go free at the expense of public order.<\/p>\n<p>More praised Bishop John Fisher for combining high achievement and deep humility: \u201cI reckon in this realm no one man, in wisdom, learning and long approved virtue together, meet to be matched and compared with him,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p>And Mother Seton remained a humble, dedicated mother even as she was an admired Mother of a religious congregation.<\/p>\n<p>She explained to a friend how her biological children had the first claim on her attention. \u201cThe dear ones have their first claim which must ever remain inviolate. Consequently, if at any period, the duties I am engaged in should interfere with those I owe to them, I have solemnly engaged with our good Bishop John Carroll, as well as my own conscience, to give the darlings their right, and to prefer their advantage in everything.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In America, as the divide between political opponents widens and public debate becomes increasingly marked by rage and name-calling, Sts. Thomas More, John Fisher, and Elizabeth Ann Seton could be our patron saints of civility. They sought God&#8217;s peace in communities of faith, prepared for suffering, and offered it up when it came.<\/p>\n<p>If we follow their example, we can become as \u201cboldly civil\u201d as they were.<\/p>\n<p><strong>TOM HOOPES<\/strong>,\u00a0<em>autor m\u00e1s reciente de El Rosario de San Juan Pablo II, es escritor residente en el Benedictine College de Kansas, donde imparte clases. Es anfitri\u00f3n de <a href=\"https:\/\/media.benedictine.edu\/podcasts\/extraordinary-story\">La extraordinaria Stor<\/a>y podcast sobre la vida de Cristo. Su libro <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/What-Pope-Francis-Really-Said\/dp\/1632530503\">Lo que dijo realmente el Papa Francisco<\/a> ya est\u00e1 disponible en <a href=\"https:\/\/www.audible.com\/pd\/What-Pope-Francis-Really-Said-Audiobook\/B0CJSFF9YK\">Audible<\/a>. Antiguo reportero en la zona de Washington, D.C., fue secretario de prensa del Presidente del Comit\u00e9 de Medios y Arbitrios de la C\u00e1mara de Representantes de los Estados Unidos y pas\u00f3 10 a\u00f1os como editor del peri\u00f3dico National Catholic Register y de la revista Faith &amp; Family. Su trabajo aparece con frecuencia en el Register, Aleteia y Catholic Digest. Vive en Atchison, Kansas, con su esposa, April, y tiene nueve hijos.<\/em><em>Imagen: Dominio p\u00fablico<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Esta reflexi\u00f3n se public\u00f3 anteriormente. Para ver todas nuestras reflexiones sobre Seton, haga clic en <a href=\"https:\/\/setonshrine.org\/es\/categoria\/reflexiones-de-seton\/\">aqu\u00ed<\/a>.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As politics in America becomes increasingly marked by division and rage, we should look to Sts. Thomas More, John Fisher, and Elizabeth Ann Seton as our patron saints of civility. They sought God&#8217;s peace in communities of faith, prepared for suffering, and offered it up when it came.<\/p>","protected":false},"author":116,"featured_media":129886,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"mc4wp_mailchimp_campaign":[],"footnotes":""},"categories":[1187],"tags":[4233,4234,3666,3740,4232,4231],"class_list":["post-129885","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-seton-reflections","tag-martyrdom","tag-martyrs","tag-mother-seton","tag-st-elizabeth-ann-seton","tag-st-john-fisher","tag-st-thomas-more"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.3 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Only the Brave Are Civil: St. Thomas More, St. John Fisher, and Mother Seton - Seton Shrine<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"As politics in America becomes increasingly marked by division and rage, we should look to Sts. 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They committed themselves to God in communities of faith, prepared for suffering and offered it up when it came.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:image\" content=\"https:\/\/setonshrine.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/06\/web_Sir_Thomas_More_and_Bishop_John_Fisher-1.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@SetonShrine\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@SetonShrine\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Tom Hoopes\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"7 minutos\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Tom Hoopes\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/f57901ba07a67b8053f1ff42476b132a\"},\"headline\":\"Only the Brave Are Civil: St. Thomas More, St. John Fisher, and Mother Seton\",\"datePublished\":\"2025-06-21T04:02:09+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2025-06-21T08:36:25+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":1397,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2022\\\/06\\\/web_Sir_Thomas_More_and_Bishop_John_Fisher-1.jpg\",\"keywords\":[\"martyrdom\",\"martyrs\",\"Mother Seton\",\"St. Elizabeth Ann Seton\",\"St. John Fisher\",\"St. Thomas More\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Seton Reflections\"],\"inLanguage\":\"es-MX\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more\\\/\",\"name\":\"Only the Brave Are Civil: St. Thomas More, St. John Fisher, and Mother Seton - Seton Shrine\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/saints-john-fisher-and-thomas-more\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2022\\\/06\\\/web_Sir_Thomas_More_and_Bishop_John_Fisher-1.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2025-06-21T04:02:09+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2025-06-21T08:36:25+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/setonshrine.org\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/f57901ba07a67b8053f1ff42476b132a\"},\"description\":\"As politics in America becomes increasingly marked by division and rage, we should look to Sts. 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Antiguo reportero en la zona de Washington, D.C., fue secretario de prensa del Presidente del Comit\u00e9 de Medios y Arbitrios de la C\u00e1mara de Representantes de los Estados Unidos, y durante 10 a\u00f1os editor del peri\u00f3dico National Catholic Register y de la revista Faith &amp; Family. Su trabajo aparece con frecuencia en el Register, Aleteia y Catholic Digest. 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